RIDING or training a Cheltenham Festival winner is a massive achievement, so to have done both, and by the time you’re 31, takes some doing. In the four years since he trained The Shunter to land a £100,000 bonus in the Paddy Power Plate, Emmet Mullins has trained a number of big-race winners, most notably Aintree Grand National hero Noble Yeats.

Since training his first winner in June 2015, Mullins has developed a reputation as a shrewd operator, both in terms of sourcing horses and perfectly executing a plan, often at gambled-on odds. It always seems wrong to rule out one of his horses, and this Cheltenham Festival will be no different, as he could potentially have five runners at Prestbury Park.

Running through your potential runners, we’ll start with Corbetts Cross. Will he run in the Gold Cup?

I’d imagine so. I haven’t spoken with Mr. McManus yet, but I’m surprised at how well he’s come out of the Ascot race and he seems in good order at the moment.

It’s probably one of the toughest races of the season. The Gold Cup is three and a quarter miles up the hill three times - it takes a lot more out of a horse than people realize. You do need to have stamina in abundance, and with the National Hunt Chase ticked off last year, we’d have to be confident stamina-wise going to it.

You’ve won the Grand National, so is this the race you would most like to win?

I would say growing up, or even starting to train, the Grand National was probably the one you’d most like to win. Thankfully, we were lucky enough to do that, so now we’re hunting for Gold Cups!

Do you think Its On The Line can go one better in the Hunters’ Chase?

We have unfinished business with the race. He’s been knocking on the door for the last two years. He was disappointing the last day in Naas, there’s no doubt about it, but hopefully we can get him sweetened up, and in the same form as he was last year. If we can get him back in the same condition, he’ll be knocking on the door, but there’s definitely a little worry about the run at Naas.

Have you decided whether Mclaurey will go for the County Hurdle or the Martin Pipe?

I’d say we’re probably leaning towards the County. Both his wins have come over two miles. He’s a horse I think will get a trip in time, but while he’s winning over two, we will probably stick to that, and hopefully have a bit more improvement when we go out in trip if he does get beat over two miles.

The English handicapper has had his say, so he’s running off 16 pounds higher – he’s 136 and won off 120 - so it’ll be a big ask. He’s a horse with plenty of potential. Whether it happens this season or not, I’d be hopeful it would all stand to him, and he’ll be a nice horse going forward.

Then there’s So Scottish in the Grand Annual…

We had him in Leopardstown yesterday over fences, and that schooling session went very well. He hasn’t had a run over fences in a while, but I think the impression he left us with yesterday was that we were leaning towards the Grand Annual, but I haven’t spoken with Frank or J.P. yet.

How is Vischio after her trip to Scotland?

She came out of the race well. She probably didn’t have the gears for two miles on a bit better ground. All being well, she’ll more than likely stretch out to two five for the Coral Cup. I wouldn’t have any worry about her stamina, I think she’s going to need a bit of trip if the ground is nicer and, if it did turn up softer or even heavy, we could always drop back.

You’ve ridden a Cheltenham Festival winner yourself, winning the Martin Pipe on Sir Des Champs. How would you compare it to training with big winners?

I suppose I was naive enough at 21 to think there was going to be more Cheltenham winners as a jockey, but I copped on quick enough it wasn’t going to happen again, and I packed it in by time I was 24.

That was very good at the time, but I probably didn’t appreciate it enough. My first Cheltenham winner [as a trainer] was The Shunter during Covid. Even though there were no crowds there, I was probably happier on my own, and that one gave me good satisfaction.

Did you always plan on becoming a trainer?

I probably hadn’t thought that far down the line, but at the same time, I’d always have my own opinions on things.

I was lucky enough to travel with a few of Willie’s horses while I was still riding. I got to travel the world for Willie - we got to the Melbourne Cup, Japan Cup, Hong Kong, Dubai, and for the Nakayama Grand Jump, we went out for six weeks with Blackstairmountain. You’re reporting back to Willie every day, and I suppose it was important to be able to report back the right things. You get to pick up a lot from the calls he makes, based on your judgments.

That was when I was about 22 or 23, and that’s probably the first time I ever considered the training route, not the jockey route. So, I suppose it’s been in the back of my head since those travels.

As a Mullins, is it safe to presume you grew up on horses, riding ponies?

I still remember getting lessons on the inside of the Super Bowl off my granny, Mrs. Mullins, on Ever So Bold was the first one, and Combine Call was the second racehorse. Actually, maybe that’s the training kicking in - I used to think Ever So Bold only won when I used to ride him out at about six years of age and thought that grandad didn’t know how to get them fit! So, it’s always been there, and I did a lot of show jumping as well growing up. But some of the earliest lessons were in Doninga as well.

Would you say that horsemanship has stood to you as a trainer?

Definitely. I spent summers up with Con Power, Robbie Power’s father, and had my ponies up there and worked away for them for the summer. We had great times up there. I suppose the show jumping did stand to me a lot as well. I did it from when I was 11 or 12, up to 16, and met a lot of people too. And you would take a lot from that different angle as well.

Obviously, you had a great introduction with your family connection, but do you think that having the Mullins name comes with a bit of pressure and expectation? Would you see any negative to it?

Growing up, definitely not. It was a great advantage to get the opportunities we were afforded, all of us had great experiences. At the drop of a phone call, we were able to go and ride out in France for different big trainers. Willie was able to make a call, and Patrick and I could travel and learn different things, and that was a great advantage. We were in a good position, but we probably made the most of it too, I think.

To be honest, I haven’t really worked for anyone else, bar Tom or Willie, and that was all I saw. To be fair, if I was given a hill gallop or different types of gallops, I probably wouldn’t know how to work them. All I’ve seen or known really is deep woodchip gallops down the years. You see plenty with all of Willie’s horses, and as the yard grew - it’s doubled in size since I started riding out in Willies - and just being there, and having your eyes open, you encounter a lot of different scenarios.

Speaking of gallops, what’s your set-up, and how many would you have in training?

I’ve a five-furlong woodchip gallop just down on the other side of Willie’s schooling strips. It’s been going well and we’re getting good results off it.

We’ve taken a bit of a jump up this year. I’ve been sitting on 29 stables for the last few seasons, and we’re up to 45 since just before Christmas. Hopefully, we can push on and try and have a better season this year.

You also train flat horses. Is that a business decision, to stay busy over the summer, or why do you do it?

I suppose it’s mainly a business decision, but not so much to keep busy. I don’t really own any National Hunt horses, I find it very hard to sell them, so I’d have a few more flat yearlings that I’d buy into, and that that seems to work well enough for me. It just seems to work out as more financially viable than trying to buy and sell National Hunt horses for me.

Trading seems to be increasingly important for some trainers…

Yeah, definitely with your smaller teams. I’ve noticed it’s probably a bit easier to keep your books more right with a few extra horses, but small teams mean small margins and one horse could really set you up nicely. It’s just you never know when you’re going to have that bit of luck.

What is your favourite aspect of training?

I suppose the race planning. It all bounces off each other, but knowing what you have at home and where to aim and your race planning. Putting horses in the right race, and when it comes off… I don’t have to be at the races - I could be just as happy at home, still training a few others and something could win somewhere. That’s the big satisfaction I get.

You’ve developed a reputation for landing gambles. Does it bother you?

I’d be quiet enough so I probably wish I wasn’t as well known, but whether it be for gambles or winners, that doesn’t bother me. I suppose that’s part of the race planning; finding out what we have at home, and being able to tell the owner and stick my neck out in the top block, and being able to tell the owner: ‘I think we have X and it’ll take Y to win this and we shall be ahead of it. That’s part of the kick.

What is your idea of success as a trainer?

I suppose starting off, I purely just wanted to run a profitable business, but now that we’ve had the big race success, it’s hard to not want to keep that up. It probably wasn’t in my mindset starting out, but it surprised me how quickly we’ve attained it, and it’s not something you want to give up either. It’s a big driving factor to maintain those standards.

Speaking of big race winners, has Noble Yeats been retired?

To be honest, there’s no firm decision yet. He wasn’t right at Christmas, we weren’t happy. I told Robert to take him home and see if he can freshen him up. I’m sure they’ll try different things, they might do some hunting, but he just wasn’t enjoying it, and you have to listen to them when they when they try to tell you. So, there’s been no firm decision made, I don’t think, and I suppose we’ll probably have a chat again some stage during the summer.

Another horse I’ve been wondering about is Jeroboam Machin…

He’s back riding. He’d probably go for another summer’s break, but he’s a horse you would hopefully be looking forward to next year, novice hurdling. I know Paul was half keen of exploring going straight over fences as well, that might be a possibility, but we will probably won’t decide that until next October.

What’s the plan for Churchfield Sunset?

She is probably going to go for the listed mares’ bumper at Fairyhouse at Easter, and there’s another blacktype mares’ race in Punchestown. I think the plan is to cover her at some stage, whenever she’s right, so it’ll probably be her last race or two this spring.

This Songisforyou won a big pot in the Northfields Handicap last season. Have you any plans for him?

I know he seems a bit long in the tooth to be getting going at it, but he seems to be going the right way. He just wants proper rattling quick ground and he’ll get that over the summer on the flat. Hopefully, there might be another nice race in him.

Speaking of long in the tooth, The Shunter is now a 12-year-old. Will we see him again next season?

He hasn’t come back to me yet, but we’ll see how he how they feel about him in Martinstown, but there were talks of coming back for another go at the Cesarewitch again. He won’t be jumping again, anyway; I think we made that decision a year or two ago. He wasn’t staying sound enough after his runs over jumps, but he’s enjoying his flat racing.

He’s a very forward going horse, he loves his time in training, and his last run the season wasn’t too bad. He was third in a nice race at the Curragh, so he left the door open for himself, but we will see how he gets on. He’s a horse that wants extreme distance on the flat with a cut in the ground, and it’s probably only likely to come in the autumn, so we’ll see how he is.