It's closing in on 20 years since Goffs acquired Doncaster Bloodstock Sales and installed Henry Beeby as group chief executive. During that time, the industry has seen booms and busts. In recent months, we have seen a surge in prices at the top end of the flat market and, at the same time, a worrying fall in clearance rates at National Hunt sales.

In a world troubled by war, political upheaval and inflation, nobody really knows what the bloodstock market will do in 2025. Before the new sales season begins, we asked Henry Beeby for his thoughts on the sector and what the future holds for Goffs.

What are your reflections on 2024, and how would you describe the year’s business to your board?

I'll be saying we've had a good year, but everything's relative. It was unlikely we were going to match the previous year, because we had the Niarchos Draft in 2023. We had a good year, but we just didn’t have that once-in-a-generation draft.

So it was a perfectly acceptable year, but we're never satisfied. Even when I sold Chiquita for €6 million, my first feeling was disappointment, because you always want more. There's a hunger there to always do better.

We always measure ourselves against the competition. In 2023, we had a sensational year, they had a good year. In 2024, they had a sensational year, and we've had a good year.

How do you describe the role of Goffs in the bloodstock industry?

We are service providers. We are everybody's servant and nobody's master. We don't get to say what happens. There's no reason people should support us or give us entries to sell, only if they think we can do a good job.

And so, when we look back on a year - of course, we look at income and expenditure and return to shareholders - but we also try and measure 'Are we doing a good job for the clients?' The vendors employ us, the purchasers use us. And we stand between them, and we're employed by everybody.

We're very lucky in that our two major shareholders - His Highness the Aga Khan and Moyglare Stud - are very supportive. As I understand it, they view their shareholding in Goffs as a way of supporting the Irish bloodstock industry. They're not saying 'we want every buck we can get', but they obviously expect us to run our business in a commercial way.

It's important to me as well, because I'm a shareholder too, about fifth or sixth on the list. I only have one interest, so it's my entire life. Profit is not my first driver. The first driver for all the Goffs team is 'Are we delivering for our clients?'

There was an explosion of investment at the top end of the flat market towards the end of the year. Some of the buyers who drove that trade are not regular Goffs clients. What are you doing to change that?

Let's call a spade a spade. It's Kia Joorabchian of Amo Racing at the yearling sales and John Stewart of Resolute Racing at the breeding stock sales. John has never been here, though he was at the London Sale. We hoped he'd come here in November, but it was notable that he wasn't at the breeding stock sales in America. Then he went to Newmarket. He will be a major target for 2025 - we may have to kidnap him again!

Kia has been a regular buyer here. He bid £7.8 million in the London Sale and - through Alex Elliott - he did buy at our yearling and breeding stock sales, but he wasn't here in person. He is top of our list and he's a guy I know well. As I understand it, the timing for the Orby didn't work for him. He was focused on getting his ducks in a row and his investors involved for Book 1 at Newmarket. He didn't go to Arqana either. I wish he'd been here. Apart from anything else, he's great theatre. I envied [Tattersalls auctioneers] John O'Kelly and Alastair Pim engaging with him. I thought I'd love to have that. I'd love to have him turning away and turning back again for one more bid.

Is it harder for Goffs to attract international buyers and, if so, why is that?

Yes and no. People say Newmarket is closer to London, this, that and the other. I would say that's a defeatist attitude and very un-Irish. I'm a blow-in, but I'm an Irish citizen. This is my home and I feel as Irish as I do Scottish now. What I love about this country is the great sense of pride Irish people have in everything Irish. And there's a slight contradiction when it comes to my specific part of it, because we've got the best trainers, the best farms, the best breeders, the best jockeys, the best racing, arguably. We have a great sales complex here, but when it comes to selling Irish horses, some of that support seeps across the water.

Look at Arqana. Deauville is a beautiful place, but it's very difficult to get there. So I don't buy into the argument that Ireland is difficult to get to, because it isn't. And I think what we perhaps need to do is to work with Irish Thoroughbred Marketing and Horse Racing Ireland and the tourism bodies to promote the Thoroughbred County of Kildare, about the close proximity of the beautiful European city that's Dublin. I mean, it's very different to London, but it's a wonderful place. We're surrounded by top class hotels, wonderful restaurants. Goffs is 30 minutes away from the centre of Dublin. So what are we complaining about?

A leading vendor told me that the key problem is the location of Goffs. The main international buyers find it awkward to get to and it’s simply never going to match Newmarket, which is 60 miles from London. Why don’t you shut Doncaster and buy land in Newmarket?

We never say never to anything - that's one of our mantras. But, what I would say is this and it's very important. The modern-day Goffs was moved from Dublin to Kildare in 1975, specifically to be a centre of excellence for Irish breeders. Goffs is an Irish company and will always be headquartered here. It's required here. We are the gateway to the world for Irish breeders. They have told me they need a strong Goffs.

A client did ask me if we would close Doncaster and build a sales complex in Newmarket. Maybe it was the same person who said it to you. My response is two words: Fasig-Tipton. I worked for them and I'm very friendly with them. They built a sales complex on the doorstep of Keeneland. But, with the exception of their Night At The Stars (after the Breeders' Cup), none of their best sales are in Lexington.

So, the point is, the world doesn't revolve around Newmarket. We're Goffs, we're an Irish sales company. We're here to serve the Irish industry and we'll do it to the best of our ability, and we can only do that with the horses.

The 2024 Orby Sale had a top price of €2 million. You say this proves Goffs can sell the best yearlings for deserving prices. But, seven of the top Book 1 yearlings were sold by Irish vendors, so clearly not everyone agrees. What can you do to change that?

What I would say to our vendors is we understand you have got to spread your risk. What we're saying is give us a good share. So, to use Denis Brosnan as the latest example, he said - unprompted by me or anybody else - 'I sent my best to Goffs and I was delighted'. And he's a very clever businessman. He didn't do it because he's an old softy, or because he wanted to pull on the green jersey. He did it because it made sound commercial business sense to him. So did Maria Niarchos and Paul Makin, Eddie Irwin, Noel O'Callaghan, Jim Bolger. They have all sold seven-figure horses with us.

The other thing I'd say about the Orby Sale is, it's a very consistent sale. We had great growth in 2023 and we grew again last year. We didn't grow to the same same extent as our main competitor, but they didn't grow in 2023. And I've no criticism to make or anything bad to say about our competitors. They're mighty people, they're good people, and they do a good job. What I will say to people is here's what we can do, and we will deliver.

When you're number two, you try harder. And I have worked for 42 years for the underdog. I was at DBS for 25 years. I've been here for another 17 years. So I've always worked for the underdog, and it makes you work harder, try harder.

It's not as if breeders are telling us things are wrong and you should do this or that differently. Nobody's telling us that, and people are pretty direct with us. We've got the equal of any sales complex in the world, it's beautifully laid out, everything's immaculate.

We've got wonderful teams in accounts, bloodstock, marketing and customer attraction, and I think we've got as good an auctioneering panel as there is anywhere.

People love what we do and how we do it. So, the contradiction is why are they sending their best yearlings somewhere else? Tell us what we need to do differently. Our answer is always yes.

You need the horses to bring the buyers. And you need the buyers to get the horses. Which is more important?

You'd probably say we have to have the horses to get the buyers. I understand that nobody's going to do it because they love us or because they feel a sense of duty. They've got to make sound business decisions, and it's hard. And the other thing is, if they've done well elsewhere, why would you change a winning formula? So I understand that.

Mavericks like Jim Bolger and Paul Makin said 'No, I'm going to do what I want to do'. Denis Brosnan is the latest of a long line of people, who have perhaps gone against the common consensus, or what people would say is the obvious thing to do, and been very well-rewarded.

By the same token, the team here genuinely get as much pleasure out of getting 25 grand for the guy, who hoped he'd get 10. It is very much about customer satisfaction and then exceeding expectations.

You talked about spreading the risk earlier on, and it's brought to my attention a number of Goffs directors sell horses - and maybe their best ones - elsewhere, and that sends a wrong message. Is that frustrating for you?

The first thing I will say is that the Robert J. Goff board - that's the parent board that owns Goffs - is a diverse board with three executives on it and a group of non-executive directors. They give of their time generously, they are sometimes challenging, but always supportive. And when they come into this room, they take all their hats off and wear only a Goffs hat. They give us the benefit of their advice, but they are independent people, who must run their own business as they see fit.

Do I wish I could persuade them to sell all their horses here? Of course. Does it drive me bonkers? Yes, but no more than anybody else. So I wouldn't be critical of them. Ultimately, it's up to us [the executives] to persuade them to change their mind. I can understand why people might say that's a bit peculiar, but it's up to us to convince all parties, whatever their connections, whoever they are, that they should send their best horses to Goffs.

Another factor could be the overwhelming Irish ‘flavour’ of the catalogue. Of the 500 yearlings in Orby 1 this year, over 280 were by stallions from one stud farm. Rightly or wrongly, some buyers may feel a lot of these could be foal shares or part-owned by that stud and, if they don’t want them, then why should others buy them. Is that a concern you have heard expressed?

Yes is the answer. I've heard the concerns or those that hold that perception. And, of course, one man's perception is another man's reality. So whether it's true or not, if people believe it, then that's a challenge.

But the Orby Sale is the Irish national yearling sale. The farm that we're referring to, which is Coolmore, is the biggest farm, not only in Ireland, but arguably the world. And, all I can say is, we're delighted they give us so much support.

They're the biggest and best in the world. And, of course, there's going to be more horses by their stallions in our sale. It's not only horses that are in the ownership of people involved in Coolmore, it's horses by their stallions bred by other independent breeders.

So I think it's a strange thing for people to say 'Oh, there shouldn't be so many'.

Does it put people off? I don't know, but it shouldn't. I don't think it makes the sale any less transparent. I think if you analyse other leading European sales, you'll see as much influence in there, but perhaps it's diluted in England by English breeders and France by French breeders.

Coolmore is the biggest, strongest and best organisation in the world at what they do, and we are thankful for their support. If they give us more, we'd welcome it with open arms. So, do we have to work on that perception? Yeah, we do. But it's natural that an Irish sale is going to be dominated by Irish sires.

Is it not the case that vendors simply consider Newmarket a deeper market?

I suppose the market is just deeper and more international, but we've got a smaller sale. We've got a two-day premier yearling sale and a two-day middle-tier sale. We've got fewer horses to sell and the other difference is that we are essentially swimming in the Irish pool. Tattersalls are fishing in both countries, so that's a challenge for us. Would we like English horses? Yeah, of course, of the right quality. And one or two have swum against the tide, to use that analogy. But I think we're going to crack Ireland first.

Credit where it's due, Goffs appears to have cracked the flat foal market. Only two of the top 10 in Newmarket were from Ireland. How has that been achieved?

When we sit around this table, I say to our shareholder representatives and our non-executive directors, 'What have we done that's worked?' The foal sale absolutely gets the lion's share of the best Irish foals. And we've done pretty well in National Hunt. We've gone from a standing start 10 or 12 years ago to be the market leader.

The only area we haven't actually cracked is the yearling market. We've done well in it, but we haven't made the progress we have in those other sectors, so we can do it. We have to continue to make the case - and I stress - we don't deserve anything. We don't expect vendors to do it out of anything other than sound business sense.

We're there to provide competition. The most important thing that makes the European bloodstock industry so strong is the competition.

The Irish bloodstock community, Irish breeders, need a strong Goffs, because a monopoly is no good for anybody. You need an alternative, in case there is a time when things don't go as well across the water.

The November Foal Sale format is successful. Could you do the same with the Orby, building up the quality as the days go on?

We're always reviewing it and we make changes, depending on whether we think the yearling sale went well or didn't. We walked away from last year's Orby Sale believing it was good. Then we watched a bonanza in Newmarket with enormous envy. Not jealousy, but envy, because we like to see people doing well. We want to have a sensational sale, but we want everyone to have a good sale, because it's the same clients in most cases. And there's no doubt that what happened at the yearling sales helped the foal trade on both sides of the Irish Sea.

So, yes, we're always looking at it, but the Orby Sales has got a long successful record. And you know, people don't like change for change's sake. Now, we did make a major change to the foal sale format a number of years ago for very relevant reasons, and happily it works. It's been tweaked a couple of times along the way, but we've now settled into a very good system. Again, I'd say never say never, and it will be reviewed. We'll listen to what people think.

Before we leave the Orby, let’s talk about the Million, or the €2 Million Orby Series, as it is now. Yearling buyers were asked to pay €5,000 at the fall of hammer to stay in the series. The Orby 2 average was €20,000, so €5,000 is a lot for those buyers. What was the take-up and would you consider a lesser fee for a lesser prize?

We got a better take up this year than last year in both sales. Double the number in Book 2 signed up for the series. And we believe the reason it got a bigger take-up was because we doubled the number of bonuses and they are going into English maidens.

The major feedback we got from English trainers in particular was, 'Look, it's great, but what about some bonuses in England?' So we took some soundings and we decided to do that. So we'll have the Million in 2025 and double the number of bonuses. Yes, people have made that comment about the initial payment, but if everyone's chasing the same pot, they need to pay that. We believe it's only fair that they pay the same. It wouldn't be fair for somebody to pay less to chase the same pot.

We'll see how it goes down this year and keep reviewing it. And I think the key to the success of these concepts is that you don't just let them sit, because people get bored of them. So we're always looking to tweak them and move them forward.

Next year, Goffs will stage a breeze-up sale at Naas Racecourse and Kildare Paddocks. It’s called the Irish Derby Breeze Up Sale and it clashes with the Derby Sale in Fairyhouse. Are you fixed on that date?

Firstly, why are we having a breeze-up? We're having a breeze up because significant numbers of Irish vendors said to us 'We would like another breeze-up in Ireland'. We've looked at it for a couple of years and decided 'Okay, we'll do it'. Then we looked at the dates and, when you look at the breeze-up schedule, we couldn't find a date that slotted in that didn't just make it difficult for the vendors, because they're either coming out of a sale or prepping for the next one.

So, we thought we'd go for a later date. Tattersalls have one linked to the Guineas meeting, so we thought the Irish Derby would be a good time for a later-maturing horse, who perhaps missed an earlier sale.

Wrongly, we thought the [Tattersalls Ireland] Derby Sale was going to be Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. We were wrong. They're going Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. It caused a little bit of angst and, I can tell you, we will not be clashing in any shape or form with the Derby Sale.

So, if we base the breeze-up sale around Irish Derby weekend, we will hold neither the official breeze nor the sale before Saturday. We still think the Irish Derby weekend can bring people in and we can link it in, but we're looking at a very select sale in year one.

It might be 50 or 100 lots. It depends what the take-up is, but we're trying to aim for a bit of quality and something that's a little bit different. So maybe have an evening affair, maybe have a dinner around it, or something like that.

Goffs has made a lot of progress in the National Hunt sector. In 2012, the June Sale average price was €15,000. This year, the Arkle Part 1 average was €48,000 and the Part 2 average was €15,000. But the NH store and foal market looks to be just about holding its own. Is there growth there?

I think going into 2024, the general consensus across flat and National Hunt was that there was certainly going to be a slowing down, if not a contraction in the market. And the early part of the year saw that. Then the flat got a major boost from two or three major investors who, by their very interaction, made others up their game and we all benefitted from that. The National Hunt didn't get major new investors in the same way. It held its own. We've come from nowhere to be the market leader, and that's really down to two things - our exceptional team and the fact that breeders and vendors have given us the support. We'll look to get better, but National Hunt hasn't enjoyed the boom that the flat has.

Trainers and owners often complain they can’t compete at the store sales with point-to-point handlers, who – they claim – enjoy very generous credit terms. Have you any concerns over credit terms offered to handlers and are the same terms offered to all your clients?

I'm surprised you haven't heard the same from flat trainers about breeze-up consignors. Again, this is just a perception and not reality. We work with anybody and everybody who wants to work with us.

You could argue it's an eccentric business model, the fact that we guarantee payment after 35 days, whether or not we get paid, and that the majority of our business is on some form of credit, but the suggestion that any group of people just come in and buy and don't pay is just not true.

Whether you're a licensed trainer, a point-to-point handler, a foal pinhooker or a breeze-up pinhooker, we are very friendly and very helpful and very commercially-minded, but we have a business to run. We are not a bank. If you look in our conditions of sale, we charge very punitive interest rates if people are late to pay. But we do agree credit terms with a whole range of people, and I'm sure our competitors do as well.

The point-to-point handlers are mighty men. They are risk-takers and they've been well rewarded. They're a joy to deal with as well. To be fair to them, they do exactly what they say they're going to do. We agree how we're going to work with them year to year, and they deliver. And hopefully, we are delivering for them as well.

For instance, when we needed a bit of support in Newbury in late 2023, they rallied around and they gave us great support and, happily, they got rewarded for doing so.

The bottom line is, would another buyer get the same terms as a point-to-point handler?

I would say that we approach credit the way old-fashioned bankers used to. By that I mean, we deal with people on a one-on-one individual basis, so anybody can ask us anything. We have certain structures in place. We have a credit committee that sits and meets regularly and reports into the parent board. We know exactly where we are with creditors and the balance sheet.

Two years ago, all the sales companies were hammered by a yearling buyer who didn't pay, but that can happen. It's a high-risk business. The anti-money laundering [AML] laws insist that you know your client and, by God, we know our clients well. I sleep well and, touch wood, we're not staring down the gun barrels of any major problems at the moment.

Horses in training sales appear to be booming. People want horses ready to run. Goffs has high-profile HIT sales at Aintree, Punchestown and Newbury. But Goffs is arguably not getting the best point-to-pointers. Can you do better there?

I think our sales at Aintree, Punchestown and Newbury are at least on par with the Cheltenham sales. It ebbs and flows year to year, because it's all about timing and there's a huge amount of luck there. The point-to-pointers are nearly always sold at the next available premier sale.

So, are we looking to add any more horses in training sales? We haven't got any specific plans. Don't forget, the Doncaster Spring Sale sold a 'Minella' horse for 400 grand last year. Regent's Stroll made 660 grand in July, so when we get the horses, we always deliver.

The Leopardstown Champions Festival Sale didn't happen last year. The timing was a bit difficult for us and there were issues with stabling, which was nobody's fault but very irritating. That is probably the only one of our boutique off-site sales that hasn't fired to quite the extent others have.

The London Sale has been an outstanding success. It's not just a sale, it's a major branding exercise and allows us to interact with an international audience.

We had planned to have another sale at Ascot on Champions Day in October. We had a couple of very good horses lined up, but both of them got niggles. Both Ascot and Leopardstown are in the calendar for this year. We will take a view nearer the time. And, if we have the right horses, we'll go for it.

Online sales are here to stay. Goffs has had some success in this area, but appears to have gone quiet recently. What are the plans?

We're looking at that space in some depth at the moment, and we want to perhaps take a slightly different approach. So, I think we'll be making an announcement in 2025 to grow that part of our business.

What investment has gone into facilities and are there any other projects on the horizon?

We've pumped a lot of money into facilities in recent years. We replaced every stable door in the last year. That cost a lot of money. We ripped up every yard and improved the surfaces. There's lots of invisible investment. For starters, we did a major project two years ago to make sure the WiFi was as good as you can get anywhere. It used to be all gravel when you came in and it was a nightmare for wheelchair users, because there was no paving on the way in. We've done lots of health and safety things around the parade ring. We're never finished, and we will always continue to make it better.

Are there any other points you wish to make?

My father [Harry] always told me auctioneers trade on our integrity, and it takes years to build up, both personally and as an entity. Goffs works to extremely high standards of transparency and integrity.

We were presented with a couple of challenges in 2024, like when Sparkling Plenty was bought in for £8.1 million and then later sold privately for £5 million. We could have told the press nothing, but my view was 'Tell everybody everything and don't spin things'.

I think transparency and integrity are very, very important. I've never traded a horse in my life, because I think that's a conflict of interest. I don't criticise any colleague or any other auction house executive who does, but if I am selling both your horse and my horse, then I have to be thinking about my own horse more. It's human nature, so I don't put myself in that position.

We were enthusiastic embracers of the Code of Practice. I was very involved in that. We insisted it had to be an Anglo-Irish code, rather than just a British code, which was how it started out. And I think that that's very important.

My closing message would be to Irish breeders: we're here, and we love it when we do well for Irish breeders. We're grateful for every single bid, every single horse. We appreciate all the support we get. And you know, we think we can do as good a job as anybody else. We believe we do as good a job as everybody else, but we can't do it without the support of the people and the horses.

What if there was no Goffs tomorrow? What would Irish breeders do? So we're here for you, and we'd do anything we can. And, if you don't like what we do, come and tell us. People do, and they're quite blunt sometimes!

One or two people have said to me since the yearling sales 'Henry, well done. You did a good job. You're doing your best'. That's no good to me.

We're not interested in the silver medal. We're not interested in coming second. We want the best, but we want the best for Irish breeders and we want the best for Ireland. We can do it, but we have to have the horses.